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ziouxpioux
01-23-2015, 04:49 PM
I am mostly targeting in this thread the veil and super veils. My question is, at what point are fins no longer veil but super veil? In other words, what are the deciding factors between the two. Thanx in advance. Karen

LizStreithorst
01-23-2015, 04:55 PM
I always wanted to know the answer to that but was afraid to ask. Nice fish there in your avatar.

ziouxpioux
01-23-2015, 05:02 PM
I always wanted to know the answer to that but was afraid to ask. Nice fish there in your avatar.

thanx for the complement. He is a F1 St Isabell or did I say that somewhere else. LOL

Danburns
01-23-2015, 06:10 PM
Steve @ AngelsPlus has a good article here: http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleVeil.htm
As Steve mentions, I have always looked to the length and thickness of the fins as a clue. Adult V/V fish seem to me to have more of a droop to the caudal fin as well.

ziouxpioux
01-23-2015, 07:19 PM
Steve @ AngelsPlus has a good article here: http://www.angelsplus.com/ArticleVeil.htm
As Steve mentions, I have always looked to the length and thickness of the fins as a clue. Adult V/V fish seem to me to have more of a droop to the caudal fin as well.

It is kinda hard to see the extent of his dorsal and anal fin as they fade to clear. He is young not yet to breeding age but is sure showing interest and has been a very aggressive fish to other males. he was great for telling me who was a male so I could pull them.


http://pics-akamai-cached.slickpic.com/NDcyMDY4MzUzMWVhMw,,/20150123/OTgzOTgwNzM4MzM,/p/1200/P1230017.jpg

LizStreithorst
01-24-2015, 04:39 PM
Good article. I wish I knew half as much as Steve from Agnels Plus. He has a good grip on fin length and strength but he admits there is more to know.

In my breeding I have found that my fish have longer and longer fins. I generally end up culling the ones that grow up to have droopy caudals. Droopy fins gross me out. I've gone in the opposide direction and am not for wifi's.

Zioux, that is an excellent koi. I know nothing, but if he were my fish I'd be looking for a nice standard fin female to breed him to.

ziouxpioux
01-24-2015, 04:55 PM
Good article. I wish I knew half as much as Steve from Agnels Plus. He has a good grip on fin length and strength but he admits there is more to know.

In my breeding I have found that my fish have longer and longer fins. I generally end up culling the ones that grow up to have droopy caudals. Droopy fins gross me out. I've gone in the opposide direction and am not for wifi's.

Zioux, that is an excellent koi. I know nothing, but if he were my fish I'd be looking for a nice standard fin female to breed him to.

He has a very nice standard fin female that I am anxious to see what they produce. In fact she may might sorta prone to being veil as her fins are no way as short as my Philippine Blues (Klaus), but really short compared to my one Super Veil German Blue. She is one nice fish, awesome body to go with her fins.

http://pics-akamai-cached.slickpic.com/NDcyMDY4MzUzMWVhMw,,/20150123/OTgzOTgzNDMzMzM,/p/1200/P1230018.jpg

http://pics-akamai-cached.slickpic.com/NDcyMDY4MzUzMWVhMw,,/20150117/OTgwNTgyMjhlZTU,/p/1200/P1160003.jpg

http://pics-akamai-cached.slickpic.com/NDcyMDY4MzUzMWVhMw,,/20150117/OTgwNTgyNWVlMzM,/p/1200/P1160002.jpg

LizStreithorst
01-24-2015, 05:08 PM
Like I said, I know nothing but I think you're correct about her fins. She is much closer to the Klaus fish that she is to the superviel, though Just be careful when you select from their offspring. Save mostly the shorter finned ones. Only save the most exceptional longer finned ones. At least that's what I would do.

ziouxpioux
01-24-2015, 06:00 PM
That is what I have in mind. The middle of the "road" fins will go on Aquabid. If they are worthy. I do not plan on auctioning off something I would not keep myself. But, in this case they will be beautiful and I would state something about if bred, their mates need to be chosen carefully.

What I do not want or can not keep for myself, or I do not feel should be on Aquabid, those go to the LFS for exchange for items. But the experience of taking some fish there the other day, was depressing. I did not like the water quality and felt like I had put them in a position of a slow death. But - can not keep all!

LizStreithorst
01-24-2015, 06:42 PM
No need to give advice when selling on Aquabid. Post pics of the fish and let folkd decide for themselves if they're what turns them on.

I'm very fond of my LFS. We are good to one another and they do a decent job with their fish. IMO it's better to get a few bucks from them than have to slap good fish I have no use for on the concrete.

ziouxpioux
01-24-2015, 06:51 PM
No need to give advice when selling on Aquabid. Post pics of the fish and let folkd decide for themselves if they're what turns them on.

I'm very fond of my LFS. We are good to one another and they do a decent job with their fish. IMO it's better to get a few bucks from them than have to slap good fish I have no use for on the concrete.

Nah, I want to be up front about fish and hopefully I can also help beginners. I am still learning (life is a learning process that never ends)and I appreciate any information people want to share.

I do have a couple Birchir who get my early on small culls, so at least I feel they are not wasted. I agree, I hate slapping fish down too but it is the fastest way if it needs to be done. I am in Florida and there is very little here in the way of good LFS. Not even good fish clubs close enough that I could attend and participate in fish auctions. sigh. I do like the owners of the one LFS but they are just tooo big and think. They have their moments.

LizStreithorst
01-24-2015, 07:45 PM
I'm in the same boat as you. I'm in southeast Missississipi. I envy the folks up north who have swaps. What a joy it must be to sell at an event where folks show up just to buy fish. I can't imagine...

When I sell on Aquabid I post a pic of the fish and tell the basics about them. I most certainly would not shoot myself in the foot by telling them something that they might not understand and would turn them off to what struck their fancy. If they have questions I answer honestly and offer more info. They almost always ask questions of me. A relationsihip of sorts is established that way. After that either they buy or they don't.

You have a good eye and I would prefer that you not shoot yourself in the foot, but do as you choose.

ziouxpioux
01-25-2015, 06:01 AM
"You have a good eye and I would prefer that you not shoot yourself in the foot, but do as you choose.[/QUOTE]

That is me then, guess I shoot myself in the foot. The way I look at it, my angels, the few I have had to sell, have brought some nice prices, and I have great reviews. I prefer, what with it costs for buy and shipping, that folks are aware of what they are paying for.

I am always upfront with what ever I do. And I do not want to discourage folks from ending up with something they have plans for that, just might not be a wise decision thus, discouraging newbys to the hobby before, they get some positive experiences.

Thus if will make possibly good breeders, or just beautiful healthy animals - I let them know. :):)