View Full Version : wifi + V (or even V/V)?

07-22-2015, 03:07 AM
How does wifi interact with V/+ or V/V?

07-22-2015, 12:10 PM
That is a good question. To date I have yet to hear of anyone producing fish with both wifi and veil. Would be an interesting project for someone to work on. I have a large Blue Ghost with wifi fins that are so big that they overlap the caudal fin, which is a massive fin itself, but I have no veils to cross it with.

07-23-2015, 02:33 PM
I agree that would be a fun project to determine if wifi is another fin altering gene or if it is a trait. I may have a new pair that I can work with so long as I can find tank space. However, while I was told the female was a wifi I just don't see it. Maybe people have different understands as to what constitutes a wide fin?

07-23-2015, 03:03 PM
I had a batch of fry about to free swim that are from a pair of Pinoy wifi's.....I'll be looking for a % count myself....it'll be interesting to see how many turn wifi.....if any??.....I had three from a spawn where neither parent was wifi.....crazy....my feeling, it's a trait....we'll see

07-23-2015, 04:41 PM
Jon, is one or both of the Pinoys a veil by chance? I agree that at this point in time that wifi appears to be a trait. Perhaps a trait that could be focused through selective breeding to produce higher and higher percentages of wifi throws? It will be interesting to see what comes from your counts.

LOL, forgive the veil question,,, I can only blame a total brain fart for that one,,, :rolleyes:

07-24-2015, 11:34 AM
LOL.....well, they're up and swimming...we'll see when they 'spike out' a bit....tho, I imagine they'll need to be around nickle to really tell...??

07-24-2015, 12:36 PM
LOL.....well, they're up and swimming...we'll see when they 'spike out' a bit....tho, I imagine they'll need to be around nickle to really tell...??

From what I have seen, the difference starts to display between dime and nickel. You are right on track!

07-24-2015, 03:35 PM
From what I have seen, the difference starts to display between dime and nickel. You are right on track!

Yep....now to grow em up a bit....

07-24-2015, 05:50 PM
I'm not sure I want to experiment with this idea, of wifi interacting with veil... because I can't say I'm a big fan of veils... in the double dose form anyway. I'm just the curious type ;) Whether wifi turns out to be a trait controlled by genes at a single locus, a trait that is polygenic, or one that is environmentally (either internal or external) affected, it would still be interesting to see how it looks with veil though there is a point at which I think you have to be careful you are not making frankenfish whose health and well-being are compromised by their physical conformation. Superveils, IMO, are on the border of this, and many are bred that are not able to hold their fins up because of their shear length/mass, their housing not being tall enough, and their particular genetics controlling the structural integrity of their fins; some have stronger fins than others and can cope better.

Anyway, I have some questions about wifi itself...

How wide do fins need to be before they are considered wifi? Is wifi just defined as a fin variation where the tip of the dorsal is not pointed, but rounded... to various degrees?
In a wifi fish... are there extra rays? It doesn't look like it from photos. It looks like the posterior dorsal and ventral rays keep growing so they end up being comparable in length to the anterior rays of these fins and it doesn't seem to affect the ventral fin as much as it does the dorsal fin.

Here is the reason I am asking all these questions about this interaction. The attached image is a little angel I picked up a few weeks ago. It is hard to see in the photo because it was taken shortly after picking it up and it was beaten up pretty bad in the LFS, but it looks like his fins are wider than conventional angel fins and it also looks like he is V/+. These features are more pronounced now that he has been here a few weeks and his fins are regrowing now he is in a tank only with other angels and getting live foods every day to bulk him up (mosquito wrigglers). He has also put on quite a bit of size. There is a distinct roundness and width to his dorsal fin, particularly. I will try and take another photo of it (I keep calling it a him... I just have a hunch it is a boy ;) ) today to show what I mean. What began as an LFS rescue is now turning into a wow... because he's really looking amazing with glitter patches showing up, nicely held fins, vigor and attitude (I like a fish with attitude :) ), a nice colour pattern, etc.. and I'm beginning to think he could be useful in breeding with platinum standard finned angels when (if *sighs*) they arrive. So... I'm wondering how these two features interact and how to manage them in a long term breeding project to develop varieties like blue smokey, blue pinoy, etc down the track.. possibly in wifi form because I quite like the wider finned look, too. Size in the photo would be 3-4cm in diameter. He's put on an extra cm or so since then. I have no idea how big a dime or a nickel is so I'm sorry, but I have to use metric ;)

07-25-2015, 02:35 AM
better photo taken tonight... wifi maybe?

10-05-2015, 02:18 PM

04-29-2016, 08:18 AM
I'm actually just starting to work on this myself in my program, and while it's just in the beginning stages and don't have any answers for you, I'd love to hear what you've managed to gather this far.

04-29-2016, 04:02 PM
My pair produces 100% wifi offspring.

06-01-2016, 09:31 AM
That looks great but I'd like to have more of a wide look than veil, long but not too the point of inhibition.

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06-03-2016, 03:36 PM
Well we know that wifi is inheritable, what we have yet to find out is its occurrence predictability. That's in the same class as red eyes, body morph, caudal fin morph, fin filament veiltail extensions (comb-tailness), and receding posterior 'half-black" pattern on Kois born with almost solid black posteriors, among others.
Visit TAF2 (angelfish.net) for related discussions (there are quite a few).