View Full Version : Critique forum Ho

07-24-2015, 07:50 PM
I was thinking that because one of the goals of TAS is to maintain the quality of angels by having a set of standards that breeders can employ to ensure quality angels are available to everyone... that a critique forum might be a good idea... with guidelines of course... so that enthusiasts can get constructive feedback on their stock and recommendations for how to use (or not to use) stock in their breeding programs... or is this what the Breeding Projects forum is meant for?

How would an online show go, too?

07-25-2015, 12:14 AM
Yes, the Breeding Projects forum falls under helping with standards and offering feedback.

What did you have in mind for an Online Show?

07-25-2015, 12:57 AM
I'm not sure, to be honest. I know from when I use to run the Australian Show Rabbit forum (I don't breed rabbits any more but was once into it in a big way), that online shows helped people who could not make regional shows gain useful feedback on their breeding and the impetus to breed by carefully reading the standards. Our club shows were monthly and our online shows quarterly. They could accumulate points and we had things like best of breed etc. We had sponsors that provided prizes and cards (small certificates) were awarded to entrants who placed. In addition to placing if the bunny was an exemplary example of a breed then it could be awarded a CC (the definition of which I can't remember as it was another lifetime about 10 years ago), which was equivalent to extra points. That way there could be a grand champion at the end of the year. The shows would be open to club members only and there was a section to encourage kids to join and take up the hobby. The online shows would have to be photographic... and I'm not sure how one would verify the photos beyond looking at EXIF data to check for modifications... but things like proof of ownership might be difficult unless one of the photos required was one with the owner in the photo, too... photoCHOPPED versions of these images are easy to pick... I can pick them a mile away because I teach kids graphic design as well as science/engineering and mathematics. So... maybe something like that could be organised???? I know, for me in Tasmania, Australia, I am up against the wall as far as getting stock. It is illegal for me to acquire stock from the mainland and it is even illegal for me to sell fish here without having a fish farm licence AND a fish trading licence. Any advancements I make are going to be super slow, expensive (due to all the middlemen required), and complicated... the social side of things might be fun too so long as it didn't get too serious. Shows tend to bring out the best, and the worst in some people.

07-26-2015, 01:33 PM
This is definitely something to look at! Fits a bit into how I'd like to see our photo contests go. More focused on a show aspect.

07-26-2015, 06:32 PM
On one hand I really like shows... and on the other.. I really hate them. On the plus side they help familiarise people with the species and breed standards (each variety is a different breed) and with a strong showing foundation the standards then evolve in accordance with the wants/needs of the membership, morals, and ethics. This is a good thing. It also helps to improve the standards of animals available to the public which consequently improves the hardiness and health of the fish available and the chances of success people will experience in keeping them. More success will raise the profile of the animal and more interest means that foundation becomes more solid and the movement becomes stronger. These, I think, are the goals of all animal breeding societies. On the negative side, fish are living things, and not commodities, and so breeding needs to be ethical. Some people get so caught up in prizes and standards of perfection (which is impossible to achieve), that the health and welfare of the animal becomes secondary to winning the shows. I really hate that. So I am torn on the concept of having shows but to be very honest, the reason I mention it here is because after my short stay here, it seems that the angelfish breeding community is by far the most sensible organisation I have thus far come across whose standards and knowledge-base are focused on the science of keeping the fish. I love that! The people here are supportive and friendly. I also love that! So I think it could work here. You have knowledgeable people who can officiate as judges, and these judges were instrumental in writing the standards. Feedback would be constructive and would help people like me to develop breeding programs more effectively. It is always beneficial to have a second opinion on your thinking and plans and it is also nice to be rewarded when something works. In the end the fish and the public are the winners. When I bred rabbits, I had about 60 breeders (minilops and mini-cashmeres) and we often had a few sets of babies all the time. Each time I would make a selection and take it to show and get feedback on how successful I was at interpreting the breed standards and how closely I was getting to it. I did not breed excessively because I was not going to cull animals like some did (I hate this) and os bred smarter instead of playing a numbers game. Instead I rehomed them and in time the quality of what I was rehoming far exceeded what I was initially showing. People would track me down to purchase pet rabbits because of their reputation for health, friendly temperament, and vigour became well-known. Most people in the club were like that and we would hold seminar days to train new judges and to help new members, and there was a strong kids movement to help bring he next generation into the hobby. It's good for breeders to see how particular features breed and how stock should be selected because often you will find that the best examples of an animal don't always make the best babies and it becomes more a matter of finding complementary traits than always putting overall best with the overall best (this forces people to think about hybrid vigour and outcrossing too to maintain the vitality of their breeding lines and avoid inbreeding depression). So.. I think it could be fun and useful. I'm also happy to help out if you are looking for someone to help :)