Bulgarian Green

[catsma_97504]

Figured it was time I updated this thread......

One thing is for certain. These angels grow as slow, if not slower, than DD Blacks and they are not as hardy as other domestic strains.

The young from the earlier spawns with the Manacapuru BG / Blue BG cross are approaching half dollar size. The few that were lighter that I suspected were Blue BG appear to be in fact Blue BG. The larger ones remain that platinum white tone and are starting to develop their green shades. There are 3 DD Black in the same tank with these Bulgarian Greens that are the same age.


The Blue BG adults are as green as ever. Just like the Philippine Blue the flash picks up this coloring, although you can definitely see the green tones just by looking at them as well. I have 2 pairs of Blue BGs, and of the 4 fish only 1 retained its dark stripes. Based on feedback from others and certain assumptions, this one is believed to be D/+ pb/pb bg/bg where the others are only pb/pb bg/bg.



I currently have a couple of spawns from the pb/pb bg/bg pair. One spawn is close to pea sized and the other is less than a week free swimming. Due to the loss of one of the Manacapuru crosses I have a female paired with a DD Black Pearscale male. Their first spawn should go free swimming tomorrow. I also have 2 Manacapuru BG males that are currently unpaired at this time.

[catsma_97504]

Another update......

I ended up with 35 in that Manacapuru BG / Blue BG spawn. Of the survivors 11 appeared to be more platinum in appearance and even had the indicators of being pb/pb. I have kept 5 from this spawn to grow out, one of which are the platinum toned ones. All other offspring had the expected gold tones of the Manacapuru parent. So now I am thinking that the Manacapuru BGs may carry pb. Hope not all of them do as this would greatly complicate any solid gene study.

[catsma_97504]

I also have a few spawns from a Blue BG pair. But no photos as yet. So, that will have to wait a little while. These spawns are peas sized and dime sized. What I find most interesting with these spawns, while both parents are Blue BG I am seeing a mix of platinum white and gold toned offspring. So, maybe there are gold genes? I really don't know what to think about this development.

And a new pairing.....DD Black Pearlscale and Manacapuru BG. This spawn is a little over a month and pea sized. I have 60 in this spawn. Counted them today while moving to a larger tank. And they all look like carbon copies of each other. This group is suspected of being D/+ +/p +/bg, but who knows what else may be hidden in the gene pool.

[catsma_97504]

Here are a couple photos of the Blue Bulgarian Green angels.....

[Babers]

This is a quote from Raiko's post from the other site. He said,"Unlike previous import (AngelfishUSA a year ago), all fish in Joel have dark gene. These fish are the original version of the BSP, which I have shown a few years ago in this forum. They are hybrid black version BSP angelfish. (not D/+ version). These angelfish have darker colored fins (like all hybrid black angelfish, which are darker than D/+ angelfish even without bg/bg gene)." This answers why the 2014 imports lost their colors or has less fin colors.

[catsma_97504]

Thanks for sharing your info Babers. So much confusion surrounds these fish that it has become increasingly more difficult to gain a solid understanding of their genetics.

The fish I have were supposed to be D/+. Imported as BSP and Platinum BSP; however, after working with them over the past year I do not believe this to be true. One observation I have made in translating Raiko's forum postings on other websites, is that he refers to these fish as "BSP" or "True BSP"; and further indicates that the "True BSP" are the only ones that will retain their darker fins at maturity. After many hours of research I have an idea what is required to create the true BSP that will retain its black fins into maturity. Time will tell.

In the spawns I've raised so far nothing has gone as expected. This is making it even more difficult to document and complete the gene study. We have approached Raiko multiple times and he has been less than cooperative to share documentation or to help work toward accepting this gene. So, we are attempting to work through this gene study flying blind.

Of the BG angels I have, one blue type appears to possibly carry the Dark gene, but no viable spawns to know if this is true yet. And I ended up with 1 female Manacapuru BG who is paired with a DD and 2 Mana BG males. I am hoping to pair these Mana BG males with Manacapuru I have to be able to isolate the BG gene.

With every step forward it feels like I've also taken a few steps backward as nothing has gone as expected. And I am always left scratching my head.

- Every time I do a water change all my bg angels get dark fins, and once they calm down the dark coloration fades. Much like that of a Zebra that can have midnight black stripes one minute and faint light grey the next. At first I thought this was because they were D/+, but now I doubt that assumption is accurate.

- In the Manacapuru BG / Blue BG spawn I had 20% with the white bodies much like the Blue aka "Platinum BSP" types. I shouldn't have gotten a single white bodied type being as this spawn would have been +/pb. So either the Manacapuru BGs carry a pb gene which has been denied or something else unexpected is occurring.

- I also have had a few spawns from a Blue BG pair. The parents are assumed to be pb/pb bg/bg....and the expectation is to have 100% offspring with the white/platinum type bodies. But this isn't happening. There are a few gold toned offspring. I haven't done a final count to work out the percentage of occurrence, but I'd guess it is in the neighborhood of 15-20%.

At this point I have no confidence in the purported genetics of these fish. It is going to take much time to break down and isolate the BG gene in order to do a proper gene study and to gain a better understanding of what to expect with this new gene. And will need as much help as possible from others raising and breeding these fish.

[Babers]

I do have the capability to produce different BSP variants from Raiko's angels (the ones I just imported). I do have some adults I can work with. Maybe we can compare notes when they start spawning.
Do you have pictures of your BSP when they were still quarter to dollar size? Just want to compare their colors from the same size angels I have right now....to see if there's a similarity/difference. The smaller angels I have do have all dark fins at all times, sometimes darker.
From my import, there is only 1 platinum bsp (was accidentally mixed in with the shipment). That platinum does not have a tint of black at all and no fin changes.

[catsma_97504]

I did not obtain the fish from David until they were prebreeder sized. So, no photos of my adults when they were quarter sized shipped by Raiko. But David did tell me that when he imported all the fish received had the dark fins; however, began losing their darker coloring between quarter and half dollar size.

Here is one of the first photos taken of the Bulgarian fish I received.....they may have been in my tank a couple of days at this point. I received these fish in June 2015.


And below are some photos of them last fall. They developed glitter and their green coloring during this time.

Manacapuru types (supposed to be D/+ bg/bg...can't prove or disprove as yet)



Blue (Platinum) types. The last photo is the pair where I believe the male is D/+

[catsma_97504]

Here is a photo taken by David soon after importing in 2014. I believe they were dime to quarter sized....

[Babers]

These angels are almost dollar size...