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Thread: Bulgarian Green

  1. #61

  2. #62
    A couple short videos...

    Last edited by catsma_97504; 04-07-2016 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Edited to embed videos

  3. #63
    Yes, your fish obviously carry the Dark gene, unlike mine. Please keep us posted on your breeding success. Would love to include your experience with these fish in our gene study!!

    You know, at first I was a bit disappointed not having the Dark gene; but now I feel differently. It will be easier for me to reverse engineer to get down to the bg gene itself then having to peel off all the other genes in the mix that creates the highly sought after Seal Points.

  4. #64
    On TAF II Raiko stated :-
    The fish at Joel are: (D/g - pb/pb - bg/bg) and maybe a small percentage: (D/D - pb/pb - bg/bg).
    but he also stated
    These fish are the original version of the BSP...
    Since the originals didn't have pb/pb do you know which statement is correct?

    The 2014 UK shipment was of stock from the same parents as the 2014 US shipment.
    So far I've had limited success with these (I suspect this has more to do with issues I've been having rather than with Raiko's fish).

    My first pairing was a dark "bg" with a blue ghost veil, I only raised 5 of these, of which I still have 3, these all appear to be very nice pinoys suggesting that the "bg" was D/D - pb/pb - bg/bg.

    These two are my latest pairing. This photo was taken a couple of weeks ago, and as you can see they have a reasonable batch of free swimmers.

    They also had a batch that are a month older and of these just 13 survived. There are a mixture of black (lace) individuals and others which don't carry a dark gene. The difference was apparent even at wriggler stage, and if you look closely in the photo, there are some which are obviously darker than others.
    This latest batch are still too small to reliably ID the blues, of the 13 survivors from the older batch, there are 9 blacks (too soon to ID blues) but of the 4 others 3 are blues.
    It's not unexpected that the koi father carries pb., but I'll be interested to do an offspring count to work out if the mother is het. or homozygous for the gene.
    Blessed are the cheesemakers!

  5. #65
    Great information!!

    I would agree that your bg angel appears to carry a Dark gene with those offspring results.

    Unable to address your question over the pb gene in the original fish shipped to the UK and the USA. The information that was shared by Raiko with the 2014 shipment indicated that they were:

    Box #1, consisting of 50% Manacapuru offspring, the progeny of Dark Bulgarian Green Parents. Offspring with “bright fins” are genetically (bg/bg), while any with dark fins are either (D/+ – bg/bg) or (D/D – bg/bg)

    Box #2 consists of two genotypes, having the mix of Philippine Blue genetics (pb) and Bulgarian Green genetics along with the Dark gene; consisting of (D/+ – pb/pb – bg/bg) or (D/D – pb/pb – bg/bg), and…

    Box #3 primarily contained a small amount of the same, with the remainder being (pb/pb – bg/bg)
    If these genetics are correct then there should be many in the USA with Seal Points that have kept their dark fins as we've seen in Raiko's photos. But I have yet to confirm this. Further, all Manacapuru BGs are supposed to carry the Dark gene.

    Using the above information I have been under the assumption my fish are:

    D/+ bg/bg (3 Manacapuru BG)
    D/+ pb/pb bg/bg (1 Blue type that has some dark pigment in the stripes and faint in the fins)
    pb/pb bg/bg (3 Blue aka Platinum types showing no signs of dark pigmentation)

  6. #66
    So...based on the boxes (if they were the same size as what I received)...I'm just gonna assume....if there were over 300 bsp angels that were imported in 2014, all of them...the dark fins faded?? Or got really light? Has this been verified from people who bought them? It seems like the question being asked to me a lot by people inquiring is... Are these the real BSP? Is the dark fin color gonna stay? Are these bg/bg and not hets? A lot of skepticism...hesitancy...

  7. #67
    "The fish at Joel are: (D/g - pb/pb - bg/bg) and maybe a small percentage: (D/D - pb/pb - bg/bg)."
    but he also stated
    "These fish are the original version of the BSP..."
    Since the originals didn't have pb/pb do you know which statement is correct?

    -On the original thread on TAF II (A new ghost variant...) when this angelfish was first introduced, Raiko (post # 256) stated, "Now I have a generation of (D/g - +/pb - +/bg) X (D/g - +/pb - +/bg). It is possible to get D/D - pb/pb - bg/bg in this generation." This was dated Oct 2012. "

    I tried re-reading the whole thread but I just got dizzy from it. Anyway, he did imply that he was gonna cross a couple fish to produce the pb/pb bg/bg. I think ( and I'm just guessing) this it what he meant when he said original BSP...when they were still a project for him.
    Last edited by Babers; 04-08-2016 at 10:17 PM.

  8. #68
    I could be wrong, but I thought there were 300 per box....but maybe it was 300 fish total. If the genetic info is accurate there has to be someone with adults that kept their dark fins. You might try contacting AngelfishUSA and see if they can confirm that some have dark fins as adults.

    The fish I got came from a private tank. And I was informed that they all started out with dark fins...and the fin pigment started to fade by half dollar size. However, as I know one pair of pb/pb bg/bg do not carry the Dark gene I cannot confirm nor deny the shared genetic info is accurate.

    Do you have true BSP that will hold the dark fins or the other type referred to as BSP where the dark pigment will fade? Time will tell.

    Once my Dark Lace pair off I should be able to determine the difference. The older spawn is about dime size, so gonna take some time. Their genetics are expected to be D/+ +/p +/bg
    Last edited by catsma_97504; 04-09-2016 at 01:57 PM.

  9. #69
    Yes...I think that's all we can do. Time will tell.

    My boxes only had only a little over 100 fish each. He must have used bigger boxes shipping fish to David.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by catsma_97504 View Post
    Do you have true BSP that will hold the dark fins or the other type referred to as BSP where the dark pigment will fade? Time will tell.

    At this point in time....Facts are....all adult/breeder BSP's I have are what you called true BSP that have dark fins. All juveniles that I have, including angels that are almost dollar in size have maintained the dark fins. Once I have angels that are past half dollar in size....I will post some more pictures...
    Last edited by Babers; 04-09-2016 at 07:41 PM.


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