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  1. #1

    Panda Ghost genetics

    I recently obtained angelfish pair, owner called them Panda Ghost 13A. They look exactly same as Panda Ghosts in gallery:

    http://www.theangelfishsociety.org/p...-ghost&cat=510

    They already bred and raised babies (great parents!). Interesting, they produced 4 different color variations of the babies. I'm new in angelfish genetics and trying to figure out, what genetics have parents and babies. I searched about panda angelfish but was unable to find much. Could somebody tell me what a genetics code of the parents? Thanks.

  2. #2
    TAS Guest TasV's Avatar
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    Can you put up photos of your fish and photos of their progeny? I've not heard of Panda Angels before but from my limited snoop around it sounds as though there is some form of marble going on (these are what came up for me labelled Panda Angels: http://absolutelyfish.com/wp-content...anda-angel.jpg and they almost look like they are platinum based). It seems to be a trade name, not a genetics-based name, so it will be like any other breeding puzzle in that you'll need to carefully examine the phenotype of the parents, take good photos and get second and third opinions, raise some fry, and carefully assess the phenotypes and phenotype ratios and perform outcrosses with other angels to reveal gene interactions. I also found this: http://arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=500218

  3. #3
    Panda angelfish are a low color variety of Koi. Many breeders cull them for the lack of orange coloration needed to label them as true Koi, however, others raise them and call them Pandas as they are black and white koi types. Genetically they are the same as Koi (Gm/Gm or Gm/g or Gm/+ with S/S). Not sure if I have any photos, but I will dig around and see if I can find any from the days I bred Koi lines.

  4. #4
    TAS Guest TasV's Avatar
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    What's going on with the 'Pandas'in the second link then? The blotching kind of looks like it is due to something else. They are blushing, aren't they, but, what else??? They still have a clear eye-stripe and is that tail stripe due to Z which can't be if they are S/S *shrugs*???
    Last edited by TasV; 08-09-2015 at 02:32 AM.

  5. #5
    Looks a lot like a Philippine blue Koi pariaba.....the greenish splotches are classic pariaba coloring.....Gm/g S/S pb/pb....or possibly Gm/+ S/S pb/pb....'blue' blue koi pariaba??
    Jon
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    TAS Guest TasV's Avatar
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    Gm/+ makes a bit of sense given the 2007 phenotype library here states that the co-dominance of gm and + will often result in the stripes showing through. I think I can see how it could work now

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TasV View Post
    Gm/+ makes a bit of sense given the 2007 phenotype library here states that the co-dominance of gm and + will often result in the stripes showing through.....
    Bingo! The confusion is because of the premise - that the pair pictured at: http://www.theangelfishsociety.org/p...-ghost&cat=510 are Goldmarbles. They're not; what they are are Silver Goldmarbles. Paired together, and assuming that they DO have a single copy each of the stripeless gene ("assuming" since the presence of striations are not a fool proof stripeless or double stripeless identifier) will not produce Goldmarble Blushings (Orange Kois) but instead, their offspring will be Silver Goldmarble Blushings, commonly known as "Blue" Kois or more formally - Blushing Goldmarbles whose genetic coding is Gm/+ - S/S.

    Quote Originally Posted by catsma_97504 View Post
    I didn't see your photo last night? But I would think those are Platinum Marbles. Gm/g pb/pb
    I think you meant to write Platinum Goldmarbles.

    Quote Originally Posted by catsma_97504 View Post
    Having images of different phenotypes is leading to some confusion with this conversation.....
    Though I am not vehemently opposed to re-using an existing descriptive in a phenotypic name, those that decide to do so MUST include the specific genotype since like-phenotypes can be produced by more than 1 genotype in many cases. For example: Paraiba Kois, Blushing Goldmarble Pandas, Paraiba Sunsets or in the case of the picture above, Goldmarble Platinum Panda.

    Quote Originally Posted by catsma_97504 View Post
    ......... This in fact was the key reason our founders began The Angelfish Society.
    Amen to that, Dena!
    Last edited by terrapins; 08-11-2015 at 10:38 AM.

  8. #8
    We had this single specimen from over 200 koi angel fry. I've called it a Panda Koi based on other descriptions I've seen of similar fish. Both parents were koi as well. What is it genetically? Still trying to learn and absorb all the genetics.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ljatsoh View Post
    We had this single specimen from over 200 koi angel fry. I've called it a Panda Koi based on other descriptions I've seen of similar fish. Both parents were koi as well. What is it genetically? Still trying to learn and absorb all the genetics.
    In order for us to address your question about genetics in your fish we'd need to see a photo. There are multiple genetic combinations that can lead to a given phenotype.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ljatsoh View Post
    We had this single specimen from over 200 koi angel fry. I've called it a Panda Koi based on other descriptions I've seen of similar fish. Both parents were koi as well. What is it genetically? Still trying to learn and absorb all the genetics.
    It's a genetic Koi with either low carotenoid color (didn't inherit a lot of orange to red-orange colors) or its colors are yet to develop (sometimes a Koi's erythrophores and xanthophores take longer to mature).
    Last edited by terrapins; 09-22-2015 at 01:42 AM.

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