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Thread: Bulgarian Green Variations

  1. #21
    Very finally Fins :-

    Mugwump asked

    I've noticed that many of the bg, and especially the seal points, acquire the swept back, hooked?, dorsal.....at what stage does this develop ?...
    I have seen a certain amount of these, but haven't done a specific count, however the photos in the previous post hopefully show that the majority of these fish haven't developed the trait. Also, many of the fish that did develop it weren't Bulgarian Greens, so I'm inclined to suspect that it's not a trait specifically linked to or caused by the gene.
    Blessed are the cheesemakers!

  2. #22
    Thanks for the reply.....
    Jon
    He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.
    - Douglas Adams

    http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/index.php

  3. #23
    A new batch....


    Father is about a year old from the previous documented batch.
    mother is the sister of his mother.

    At this stage I'm guessing that father is D/(Gm or possibly +) - (S or +)/+ - Sm/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg
    Mother is D/+ - S/+ - pb/pb - +/bg

    If all goes to plan, and they only went free swimming this morning, I should have a clearer idea of their parent's genetics in a couple of months.
    Blessed are the cheesemakers!

  4. #24
    Parent's are doing a good job, and the babies are growing well....

    Blessed are the cheesemakers!

  5. #25
    Another week and the tank was starting to look rather crowded, so although the parents were still doing a good job, I thought it best to remove them today, but not before I took these photos...






    As you can see the babies are growing well, but sadly there's no sign of any blushing ones, so Dad obviously doesn't carry a stripeless gene.
    Blessed are the cheesemakers!

  6. #26
    As usual, your shots are cozy and vivid.

  7. #27
    Well 4 months on from when they went free swimming, first an update on these babies.
    Firstly there are no blushing youngsters so we know the male didn't have a stripeless gene, otherwise from the mix of youngsters both Bulgarian Green and those that are only het. for the gene, I'm pretty confident that my original identification of the parent's genetics was correct, Male D/+* - Sm/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg and the female D/+ - S/+ - pb/pb - +/bg

    * I've seen no evidence of Gm in any of the youngsters.

    In general this batch has been rather slow growing but having spread them out to 3 seperate tanks about a month ago they seem to have picked up, I suspect this has more to with the pb genes than the bg ones as both heterozygous & homozygous bg's seem to be growing at a very similar rate.

    I'm not sure how useful a phenotype count will be as I did seem to lose a significant number of what I take to be D/D pinoys at about the 1 month stage so I suspect ratios might be quite skewed.

    In other news....
    Blessed are the cheesemakers!

  8. #28
    A new batch went free swimming yesterday. For convenience I shall refer to this batch as batch #3 in future posts.

    The parents are both offspring from the batch I first posted about in post #6, and for which I posted the phenotype count in post #17.

    Female first of all,
    I'm highly confident that she is Gm/+ - S/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg


    The male I'm not so sure about
    I think he's D/D - (S/+ or +/+) - Sm/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg



    The problem is, he's so dark I'm beginning to question whether he's homozygous for bg. But if he's a het. he doesn't look quite like any pinoy I've had before, and I've bred a lot of smokey pinoys. The shade of blue is quite different from a typical pinoy a more metallic steel blue. I raised a very similar sibling to this fish, both were incredibly slow growing, and the other is still pretty small. This one has attained a reasonable size, but is still smaller than I would expect for a typical fish of his age.

    Anyway we should get an answer in a month or so, and even now, looking at the fry they all appear to be fairly consistent in colour, which would suggest my I.D. is correct.
    Certainly both parents seem to be doing an excellent job...


    Blessed are the cheesemakers!

  9. #29
    ..good work!....great pics
    Jon
    He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.
    - Douglas Adams

    http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/index.php

  10. #30
    Update on batch #3



    Well as you can see, both parents are still doing a fine job.
    If you look very closely at some of the fry, you can just make out that they are blushing, this means that both parents must be ghosts. As the male is a smokey, this means there will be 6 different phenotypes even before we start looking at the main body colours of the parents :-
    S/S - Sm/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg
    S/+ - Sm/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg
    +/+ - Sm/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg
    S/S - +/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg
    S/+ - +/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg
    +/+ - +/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg

    The parents came from a cross of D/+ x D/Gm which means there are 4 possibilities
    D/D
    D/Gm
    D/+
    Gm/+

    In my experience with Bulgarian Green so far, D/D tend to be the darkest, with Gm/+ the lightest, and the latter tend to have clear rather than black fins. I'm pretty confident that the male is D/D, as he was one of the darkest individuals in the batch, so much so that I was beginning to question if he was homozygous for the Bulgarian Green Gene. However looking at how light the babies are I'm now confident that he is.
    The mother I'm more unsure of, the lightness of her fins suggest Gm/+ but there's no obvious sign of any black markings from the Gm gene (the black blotch visible in the photo above can fade with mood, so is part of the ghost patterning, likewise the blotch at the root of her tail.) So there's a possibility that she may be D/+. As the babies develop, I'll have a better idea, particularly if any show signs of the gold marble gene.
    Blessed are the cheesemakers!

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