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Thread: Bulgarian Green Variations

  1. #11
    Nice update. Love how detailed your photos are!

  2. #12
    I've noticed that many of the bg, and especially the seal points, acquire the swept back, hooked?, dorsal.....at what stage does this develop ?...
    Jon
    He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.
    - Douglas Adams

    http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/index.php

  3. #13
    As this is my first batch which should produce some bg/bg fish, the best I can offer is, "watch this space".

    But beyond that I'm not entirely clear what you're describing, do you have a photo of a fish with that trait?
    Blessed are the cheesemakers!

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Pterophyllum View Post
    As this is my first batch which should produce some bg/bg fish, the best I can offer is, "watch this space".

    But beyond that I'm not entirely clear what you're describing, do you have a photo of a fish with that trait?
    Jon
    He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which.
    - Douglas Adams

    http://www.mugwump-fish-world.com/index.php

  5. #15
    I've not noticed that bg's are particularly prone to that, but I would regard it as a flaw and therefore not something that I would try to breed for.
    My suspicion is that it's environmentally, rather than genetically influenced, but that said, have noticed that some slight dorsal kinks and bends do seem to go down the generations, so these days, I pay particular attention to fin irregularities when selecting potential breeders.
    Blessed are the cheesemakers!

  6. #16
    Time for an update, about a month ago I split the batch between two tanks, approximately half were left in their original aquarium, whilst the others (almost all darks of one variety or another were moved into the tank below. I reasoned that splitting the darks from the rest would make the eventual phenotype counts a bit easier. however, it's now getting to the point where I'm going to have to thin numbers further and move some to a third tank!

    not the best photo, but it gives an idea of size & numbers, the tanks being 30" x 18" x 18"



    some of the young clearly have inherited a gold marble gene from their father :-


    Assuming that Raiko is correct and bg is due to a new single gene, I now have a clear idea of the genetics of the parents :-

    Male D/Gm - S/+ - +/+ - Sm/+ - +/pb - +/bg
    Female D/+ - +/+ - V/+ - +/+ - pb/pb* - +/bg

    The first thing to note is I have a phenomenal number of potential genotypes/phenotypes and sorting them all out is going to be one heck of a job.

    to give an idea, here's a photo of some of the fish in the top tank


    and some in the tank below :-



    None the less I think I'm managing to ID some of them

    This I think is D/+ - S/+ - pb/pb -bg/bg


    there are also some which I suspect are D/D - bg/bg and were the name "chocolate" not already taken, that's the name I'd choose to give them, these are a mid brown, some have and some don't have stripes, I suspect those without stripes are either S/+ or Sm/+ or both. Some also show signs of pb. For convenience I'm referring to these "Cocoa angels". Since it shows the tail band I guess this must be D/D - S/+ - bg/bg


    The colours on all these photos are reasonably true to life, the photo below includes several of these "cocoa" angels, the one bottom left appears to be D/D - S/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg whilst the one directly behind it looks to be D/D - bg/bg


    The lighter coloured fish are harder to be sure but I think the fish at the front is Gm/+ - pb/pb - bg/bg, but what of the other two.



    As might be expected with such a varied genetic mix, there is considerable variation in growth, some of the darker fish remain very small, and in the last month I've lost about a dozen runts all obviously either D/D or D/g judging by the intensity of their pigmentation.



    In general the Bulgarian greens that I've been able to identify seem to be slightly slower growing than many of their siblings, so next split I will attempt to pick those from the rest. In general however growth rate is reasonable, and there seem to be be few health issues/deformities at this stage. I have one smokey veil which appears to have a mild notch deformity behind it's head, and the odd mild fin deformity, but nothing serious.

    Without having done accurate counts, what follows is based on my general observations, but it's pretty striking. As you can probably tell from the top photo I have probably in the region of 150 - 200 fish in this batch, in theory this should mean that I have 75 - 100 veiltails. It should also mean that I have somewhere in the region of 35 - 50 Bulgarian greens, and I would guess that I've been able to identify a good half of them. In theory that should mean that there are 20 or so veiltail Bulgarian greens, but so far I've been able to spot just 2. Statistically this number would be highly significant, and would strongly suggest that bg is fairly closely linked to the veiltail gene. If this proves to be the case since no other cases of gene linkage have been shown in angels, it will immediately show that bg is at it's own unique locus. However it requires a careful phenotype count and statistical analysis to be sure.
    An alternative possibility would be that a disproportionate number of veiltail Bulgarian greens died early in development. Careful analysis of the numbers may yet prove this to be the case, but in the meantime, I'd strongly advise anyone working with this gene to pay particular attention to it's interaction with veiltail.

    more in a month or so!
    Blessed are the cheesemakers!

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